Monday, February 28, 2011

No stuttering mice!

Currently, I am reading articles by science journalists in well-respected newspapers and magazines, telling us about the prospect of stuttering mice. And other highly inaccurate stuff.

I am nearly convinced that there will NOT be a stuttering mouse. The Drayna group claims that single mutations in one of three genes, forming part of a metabolic pathway, causes stuttering in nearly all cases. This finding needs to be replicated for me to believe it.

Consistent with their finding, they (or collaborators) plan to create mutations in mice, and see what is happening. They will most likely find subtle damage in some cell types in some brain regions, but they will not hear stuttering mice. People need to get away from the myth that a gene is coding for a special property. Genes deliver the instruction to create a protein, and in combination these genes can create complex molecules needed by the body. My theory is that the mutation only affects specific brain regions that happen to be responsible a stable communication between language and motor areas. Subtle damage to these regions leads to an unstable, low capacity speech system.

32 comments:

Ora said...

"I am nearly convinced that there will NOT be a stuttering mouse."

I'm confused. Obviously there won't be a stuttering mouse because stuttering is an interruption in speaking, and mice don't speak.

What would it mean that there is a stuttering mouse?

This is a serious question. I think you're serious with your statement, and I just don't know what you mean.

Anonymous said...

There are people studying stuttering birds. Why do you think there won't be stuttering mice? It seems like in humans (and maybe birds) we draw the sounds from a word-sound template and stuttering only occurs while doing that not when making random noises. Is this the reason you think there will not be stuttering mice? I'm assuming that if the mice are looking up sounds from a template and feel pressure to communicate (in a limited way) they will stutter. Maybe they won't even develop the ability to speak.

Moreover, what do you think the value of this research is?

Anonymous said...

Too bad theres not a link to the article. Mice do vocally communicate, although it's not a "language" per se as it is with birds

Anonymous said...

They have also done research on people who are deaf that stutter in and during their use of sign language.

Any hope that Fluency Training, Fluency Shaping, Stuttering Modification, the Speecheasy device, Lidcombe, Cognitive Approach, Solution Focused Brief Therapy, Palin PCIT, or drug therapy will alliviate the disorder of stuttering in the people who are deaf and stutter in the sign language they use, or the bird or mice populations that stutter as they speak to a higher degree of success than those therapies have had with people who stutter?

Those in the know have all kinds of questions...

Anonymous said...

Nobel Prize for the inventor of stuttering mice

Anonymous said...

The next Oscar award winning movie?

"The Mice Squeaks"...

Anonymous said...

Another candidate for Crackpot Award

http://jessicamstone.com/blog/my-speech-story-the-curse-and-the-%E2%80%9Ccure%E2%80%9D/

She said: "I realized that the way I thought about my stuttering – and not the stuttering – was the real problem. I had put such suffocating pressure on myself to have perfect speech, never noticing that even fluent speakers speak imperfectly. On the bus home, I marveled at the prison I had created for myself; and I alone knew the way out. I felt incredibly liberated."

Anonymous said...

WHEN WE WILL HEAR ABOUT CURE FOR STUTTER?
I have new hope after Pagoclone!
i feel it's too close :)

Anonymous said...

Doesn't sound like a crackpot to me.

You sound like you been smokin' crack and pot.

KK said...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/feb/20/scientists-create-gm-mice-stuttering

According to the article in Guardian, they already created the mice and doing some ultrasonic recordings of mice.

KK said...

"The Drayna group claims that single mutations in one of three genes, forming part of a metabolic pathway, causes stuttering in nearly all cases."

I dont think they ever claimed it. At least not in their paper.

A boy said...

I hope they will find a treatment for stuttering as soon as possiple.

A boy said...

I'm wondering why they don't test thier studying on human's because it is easier and quicker to find a treatment for our suffering.

sorry, if there any mistake on my writing because English it is not my first language.


All best

Anonymous said...

Hey Crackpotter:

Stuttering is not psychological. For some people, they think stuttering is psychological. Stuttering is nuerological.

The females who claim to be stutterers (but do not stutter) need to wake up and stop crying and stop pretending to be stutterers....get a life. The disease they have is called psychogenic stuttering. Stop crying over stuttering if you DO NOT stutter.

Can't be a stutterer without stuttering.

Sick of people who claim to be a person who stutterers but do not actually stutter. Ruins it for the Real Stutterer who are suffering in this world. And they "screw" up the research progress on stuttering. They poison the sampling population but claiming to be stutterers, but are NOT really stutterers. Tom is a real stutterer and proud of it.

Misnomer said...

Tom, what are your views about subconscious mind? People who have cured with help of metaphysics with positive thinking.
I would want you to shed some light on these areas.

Anonymous said...

To the most recent Anonymous:

Why do you believe that women don't stutter??

The ratio of men to women is about 4 to 1. But there are plenty of female stutterers and there are plenty of references that support that. For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1288304/

Anonymous said...

To the most recent Anonymous:

Dude or Dudette, Calm down and Chill OUT!!!

Of course there are female real stutterer who stutter. Who exhibit symptoms of stuttering....

All I am saying is there is a significant number of females who cry and shit about stuttering when they don't actually stutter. That is the reality. The disorder these group of people have is not stuttering, the issue they have is something else.

Not a stutterer if you don't stutter, no matter how you cry and shed tears about it....

Ok, chill out. Dude or Dudette. I see a stutterer when I see, when I see a fake stutterer or something that is not stuttering, I call it out! Just like Tom. I call what I see.

Pam said...

One of the anonymous posters wrote:
"The females who claim to be stutterers (but do not stutter) need to wake up and stop crying and stop pretending to be stutterers....get a life. The disease they have is called psychogenic stuttering. Stop crying over stuttering if you DO NOT stutter."
I do not understand this. Who are the females who claim to stutter, but you don't think they do? Are you talking about covert stutterers, who are not just women, but men too?
I am an adult female who stutters, I don't whine and cry and complain about it, like you are referring to. This reminds me of a guy a few years ago who insisted that people who only stutter mildly should not call themselves stutterers, like it is a contest of severity.
Why do we do this amongst ourselves? How can we expect the fluent world to understand us if we can't even understand each other?

Anonymous said...

Today, at International Women Day, respect women and let them boast as a privilege that they stutter...Just kidding!!!
Of course women stutter..One of my colleagues stutter severely...

biplab said...

Its like there are many researches, being conducted in stuttering, and many dollars being spent, hope sb would find a cure by next millenium, if not in my lifetime.

Torey said...

To the anonymous on Saturday, 5 March 2011 07:20:00 CET:

As someone who has no stuttered for about 27 years, there is no doubt in my mind that stuttering has a neurological component and a psychological component. To say it's only one or the other is silly.

My own theory is that people are genetically predisposed to being a stutterer. That doesn't mean that they will be, just that if certain environmental factors take place around them, they have a much greater chance of becoming one. So yes, that means parents and well meaning speech therapists can certainly (and do!) play a role in creating stutterers.

And what do you mean by your talk of, "they can't be a stutterer if they don't stutter"? If I speak without my facial tension for 5 seconds, am I no longer a stutterer? 5 minutes? How about 5 weeks? There is such a thing as a covert stutterer. A person who gets so good at avoiding certain words, phrases, situations, etc that no one ever sees them make mistakes. But on the inside they're killing themselves with stress over trying to talk like that. Most people talk with little effort but the covert stutterer uses all their energy to make sure no one knows about their "problem."

Anonymous said...

Torey, can you please explain how stuttering is psychological?

Anonymous said...

Covert stutterers are not real stutterers. Covert stutterers have psychological problems and need to see a therapist.

The cause of stuttering is not psychological.

Anonymous said...

Tory,

Did you say that Parents and Speech Therapists cause stuttering?

Anonymous said...

I kinda disagree with Torey. I don't know what causes stuttering. I believe nobody really knows, and the researchers have a history of being wrong the vast majority of the time.

BUT - Beyond any shadow of doubt -

Speech Therapists play the PRIMARY role in INCREASING the SEVERITY of stuttering in/for those of us who stutter.

That's why the NSA and othe self help groups are here. All you need to do is go to a convention, and you will hear tons of horror stories of speech therapy and therapists.

They are my group of experts for my imperical, evidenced based reseach conclusions.

Anonymous said...

Yes, some speech therapist are sadistic and they only want to make you cry and suck your money.

Poor stutterers!!!!!

The myth of the super clinician?

A boy said...

Auctlly I'm not sure but in my opinion I think mouse can not speak but can make sound for example: if you have two mouse, one of them had a stuttering genes and the other one doesn't have so compare btween their sound if there was a differnt then mouse can be stutter.

Anyone agree with me ? if not why ?

Sorry about my English because i'm saudian and hope you understand my point ..

Tom Weidig said...

@ A boy:

I understand what you are saying, but we need to be careful.

Stuttering or Non-stuttering is not contained within a gene. A gene allows the body to manufacture proteins which are part of the brain.

It could well be that the same gene has no effect whatsoever on the brain region responsible for speech or sound production.

Tom

A boy said...

Ok Tom, what i understood from your post is that stuttering may cause by some proplmes with proteins such as missing some proteins in the brain as i understand your post.

can genes be treated ? if not why they still looking for more genes on the brain ?


thanks Tom

JD said...

The thought of stuttering mice is very creepy and confusing to me....i cant understand what has that got to do with anything,,let alone finding a cure for stuttering.....

Misnomer said...

@ A boy

Scientist have determined some genes which have mutation (Which are different in some points than normal genes) in stuttering persons but mutated genes are also variable among different stuttering populations. For instance, genes which are mutated in Asian stutters are not the same as that observed in western stutters and vice-a- versa. Even more than one genes are generally observed as mutated.
In terms of therapy, alteration of gene to achieve normal gene is next to impossible at this level. Now, we have technology which help to block the expression of gene into proteins or at earlier level but still technology is at nascent stage. Moreover, it is not wise to block gene if protein produced from that gene is involved in other important functions.

As Tom said, mouse model will help to understand which part of brain is damaged in stutter. Genes which are mutated so consequently their protein produced are not able to function properly. Scientists have found that genes which are mutated in us are involved in some lysozome degradation pathway which in normal level might be necessary for the proper function associated with those particular cells. So after introducing the mutations they will come to know which part of brain is damaged.

Cure is long way to go....Though it is just beginning of understanding,it will be significant finding.

Anonymous said...

Your comments about Dr. Bagchi were tantamount to calling him stupid. If stuttering is genetic, then what is the explanation for those who have had severe stuttering, to become completely normal after dealing with and issue of fear. Did they get a new set of genes? If stuttering was genetic, then instant improvement would be impossible. How do you get cured after dealing with heart issues if it is genetic? Just because family members have the same issue, does not in ANY way prove that it is genetic. It could easily have been the result of a family history of abuse, trauma, or anything else. By the way, much of genetic science is very flawed!!! And they often come up with inaccurate hypotheses. There was a time when they believed that there was a genetic link for alcoholism too. Now they realize that has been debunked too.